J E Y T pisze:Nie wiem... Wiem jedno jagdpanzery, SU i ISU były łatwiejsze w produkcji...
Tylko się droczyłem . W końcu to nie wina Anglików czy Amerykanów że "nie zrozumieli" idei upraszczania produkcji niszczycieli czołgów ( chociaż Anglikom udało się popełnić Archer'a ale jedna jaskółka wiosny nie czyni ). Myślę zresztą że było to raczej spowodowane różnicami w koncepcjach użycia ww przez zachodnich aliantów a Niemcami i ZSRR a nie brakiem potrzeby oszczędzania.
AWu jeśli coś tak przywaliło w pancerz że wyrwało dziurę tej głębokości to załoga na pewno przeżyła to ciężko albo wręcz zginęła od wstrząsu ( w odydwu przypadkach zniszczenia czołgu byłyby minimalne ).
Co do powodów że nie nastąpiło przebicie pancerza to mogła być to niekoniecznie wina jakości pocisków do 152ki lecz tego że walneli w niego nie pprzeciwczołgowym lecz np. burzącym .
Pozwolicie że zmienię trochę temat w temacie. Rozwój organizacyjny sowieckich wojsk szybkich w czasie wojny
Guards Mechanized Corps
1st Guards - from 1st Guards Rifle Division, November 42
2nd Guards - from 22nd Guards Rifle Division, November 42
3rd Guards - from 4th Mechanized Corps, December 42
4th Guards - from 13th Mechanized Corps, January 43
5th Guards - from 6th Mechanized Corps, January 43
6th Guards - from 3rd Guards Motorized Rifle Division and 49th Motorized Rifle Brigade, June 43
7th Guards - from 2nd Mechanized Corps, April 43
8th Guards - from 3rd Mechanized Corps, October 43
9th Guards - from 5th Mechanized Corps, October 44
Mechanized Corps
1st - from 27th Tank Corps, August 42
2nd - formed September 42; became 7th Guards Mechanized Corps, April 43
3rd - from 8th Tank Corps, September 42; became 8th Guards Mechanized Corps, October 43
4th - from 28th Tank Corps, October 42; became 3rd Guards Mechanized Corps, December 42, new 4th Mechanized Corps reformed July 43
5th - from 22nd Tank Corps, October 42; became 9th Guards Mechanized Corps, October 44
6th - from 14th Tank Corps, November 42; became 5th Guards Mechanized Corps, January 43
7th - formed September 42
8th - formed September 42
9th - formed September 43
10th - formed 1945 in the Far Eastern Theater
(13th) - actually the reorganized 13th Tank Corps November 42, became 4th Guards Mechanized Corps, January 43
Guards Tank Corps
1st Guards - from 26th Tank Corps, December 42
2nd Guards - from 24th Tank Corps, December 42
3rd Guards - from 7th Tank Corps, January 43
4th Guards - from 17th Tank Corps, January 43
5th Guards - from 4th Tank Corps, February 43
6th Guards - from 12th Tank Corps, July 43
7th Guards - from 15th Tank Corps, July 43
8th Guards - from 2nd Tank Corps, October 43
9th Guards - from 3rd Tank Corps, October 43
10th Guards - from 30th Tank Corps, October 43
11th Guards - from 6th Tank Corps, October 43
12th Guards - from 16th Tank Corps, October 43
Tank Corps
1st - formed March 42
2nd - formed March 42; became 8th Guards Tank Corps, October 43
3rd - formed March 42; became 9th Guards Tank Corps, October 43
4th - formed March 42; became 5th Guards Tank Corps, February 43
5th - formed April 42
6th - formed April 42; became 11th Guards Tank Corps, October 43; new 6th Tank Corps reformed November 43
7th - formed April 42; became 3rd Guards Tank Corps, Jan 43; new 7th Tank Corps reformed November 43
8th - formed April 42; became 3rd Mechanized Corps, September 42
9th - formed May 42
10th - formed April 42
11th - formed May 42
12th - formed May 42; became 6th Guards Tank Corps, July 43
13th - formed May 42; became 13th Mechanized Corps, November 42
14th - formed May 42; became 6th Mechanized Corps November 42
15th - formed May 42; became 7th Guards Tank Corps, July 43
16th - formed June 42; became 12th Guards Tank Corps, October 43, new 16th Tank Corps reformed November 43
17th - formed June 42; became 4th Guards Tank Corps, January 43, new 17th Tank Corps reformed July 43
18th - formed June 42
19th - formed December 42
20th - formed December 42
21st - formation begun April 42 but never completed, destroyed at Kharkov June 42 and never reformed
22nd - formed April 42; became 5th Mechanized Corps, October 42
23rd - formed April 42
24th - formed April 42; became 2nd Guards Tank Corps, December 42, new 24th Tank Corps reformed July 43
25th - formed July 42
26th - formed July 42; became 1st Guards Tank Corps, December 42
27th - formed June 42; became 1st Mechanized Corps, August 42
28th - formed July 42; became 4th Mechanized Corps, October 42
29th - formed February 43
30th - formed February 43; became 10th Guards Tank Corps, October 43
31st - formed June 43
Guards Mechanized Corps
1st Guards - from 1st Guards Rifle Division, November 42
2nd Guards - from 22nd Guards Rifle Division, October 42
3rd Guards - from 4th Mechanized Corps, December 42
4th Guards - from 13th Mechanized Corps, January 43
5th Guards - from 6th Mechanized Corps, January 43
6th Guards - from 3rd Guards Motorized Rifle Division and 49th MechanizedBrigade, June 43
7th Guards - from 2nd Mechanized Corps, July 43
8th Guards - from 3rd Mechanized Corps, October 43
9th Guards - from 5th Mechanized Corps, September 44
Mechanized Corps
1st - from 27th Tank Corps, September 42
2nd - formed September 42; became 7th Guards Mechanized Corps, July 43
3rd - from 8th Tank Corps, September 42; became 8th Guards Mechanized Corps, October 43
4th - from 28th Tank Corps, September 42; became 3rd Guards Mechanized Corps, December 42, no new 4th MC reformed afterwards.
5th - from 22nd Tank Corps, September 42; became 9th Guards Mechanized Corps, September 44
6th - from 14th Tank Corps, November 42; became 5th Guards Mechanized Corps, January 43
7th - formed January 1943 (was slow to form not being fully formed until September 1943)
8th - formed February 1943 (also slow to form, not fully formed until October 1943)
9th - formed January 43, but didn't become fuly formed until September 1943
10th - formed December 1944 in the Far Eastern Theater. Wasn't fully formed until June 1945
(13th) actually the reorganized 13th Tank Corps November 42, became 4th Guards Mechanized Corps, January 43
Guards Tank Corps
1st Guards - from 26th Tank Corps, December 42
2nd Guards - from 24th Tank Corps, December 42
3rd Guards - from 7th Tank Corps, December 1942
4th Guards - from 17th Tank Corps, January 43
5th Guards - from 4th Tank Corps, February 43
6th Guards - from 12th Tank Corps, July 43
7th Guards - from 15th Tank Corps, July 43
8th Guards - from 2nd Tank Corps, September 43
9th Guards - from 3rd Tank Corps, November 44
10th Guards - from 30th Tank Corps, October 43
11th Guards - from 6th Tank Corps, October 43
12th Guards - from 16th Tank Corps, November 1944!
Tank Corps
1st - formed March 42
2nd - formed March 42; became 8th Guards Tank Corps, September 43
3rd - formed March 42; became 9th Guards Tank Corps, November 1944
4th - formed March 42; became 5th Guards Tank Corps, February 43
5th - formed April 42
6th - formed April 42; became 11th Guards Tank Corps, October 43 (no new 6TC reformed)
7th - formed April 42; became 3rd Guards Tank Corps, December 42 (no new 7TC reformed)
8th - formed May 42; became 3rd Mechanized Corps, September 42
9th - formed May 42
10th - formed April 42
11th - formed May 42
12th - formed May 42; became 6th Guards Tank Corps, July 43
13th - formed April 42; became 13th Mechanized Corps, November 42
14th - formed May 42; became 6th Mechanized Corps November 42
15th - formed May 42; became 7th Guards Tank Corps, July 43
16th - formed June 42; became 12th Guards Tank Corps, November 44 (no new 16TC formed)
17th - formed June 42; became 4th Guards Tank Corps, January 43 (no new 17TC formed)
18th - formed June 42
19th - formed December 42
20th - formed December 42
21st fully formed by the end of April 42, destroyed at Kharkov June 42 and never reformed [note: Interestingly enough, this unit began as 1st Mech Corps, but was redesignated 21TC by the end of April. This created confusion amongst it's parent unit, Southwestern Front command, as they seem to have not been aware of the new force structure developments. As a result, the 21TC was referred to as a mech corps for about a month]
22nd - formed April 42; became 5th Mechanized Corps, September 42
23rd - formed April 42
24th - formed April 42; became 2nd Guards Tank Corps, December 42 (no new 24TC formed)
25th - formed June 42
26th - formed July 42; became 1st Guards Tank Corps, December 42
27th - Began forming in June, but formation was never completed; became 1st Mechanized Corps, September 42
28th - formed July 42; became 4th Mechanized Corps, September 42
29th - formed February 43
30th - formed March 43; became 10th Guards Tank Corps, October 43
31st - formed May 43
Przepraszam że po angielsku ale brakuje mi czasu
Wszystkim interesującym się tą tematyką polecam przeczytać.
Panie, weźcie kości w rękę i wyobraźcie sobie, że gracie z królem Kastylii, i rzucając je na stół zdajecie wszystko na los bitwy. Jeśli dopisze wam szczęście, zrobicie najlepszy rzut, jaki kiedykolwiek uczynił król na ziemi; a jeśli rzut wam się nie powiedzie, inaczej nie odejdziecie z gry, jak z honorem.
Gil de Osem do króla Portugalii Jana I Dobrego przed bitwą pod Aljubarrotą (14.VIII.1385)
Mam już materiały do drugiej części wojsk pancernych w której będą opisane działania bojowe w okresie od 1929 do 1940. Ponieważ robię równolegle atlas kampanii wrześniowej oraz książkę Kursk 1943 to trochę potrwa.
. W końcu to nie wina Anglików czy Amerykanów że "nie zrozumieli" idei upraszczania produkcji niszczycieli czołgów ( chociaż Anglikom udało się popełnić Archer'a ale jedna jaskółka wiosny nie czyni ). Myślę zresztą że było to raczej spowodowane różnicami w koncepcjach użycia ww przez zachodnich aliantów a Niemcami i ZSRR a nie brakiem potrzeby oszczędzania.
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