Interpretujemy podręcznik O:WWII

Forum systemu bitewnego "Operation: World War II".
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xardas12r
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Interpretujemy podręcznik O:WWII

Post autor: xardas12r »

Właśnie, wszędzie gdzie byłem Gra O:WWII to trochę inna gra niż ta w którą ja gram. mam już dość ciągłych wymian zdań z graczami z innych miast (Pozdrawiam Ralwgora) na temat zasad. Tak więc Proponuje rozebrać podręcznik od O:WWII po stronie. Tak wiec zaczynając:
INTRODUCTION
OPERATION: World War Two is a wargame for two players set during the Second World War that allows you to
simulate skirmish level battles using model infantry and tanks. Dice introduce that element of luck which in real-life
is the difference between success and a terrible failure. But luck is not enough to win; every bit of information in the
tables is the result of careful study and is as realistic as any game will allow. Remember that some terms will be
clarified later on in the rules, so we advise you to start by reading the rules for infantry battles, play a few games,
and then read the part that covers vehicles. More expert players are advised to read the whole rulebook at least once
before playing.
Game Philosophy
Unlike other wargames, the game-mechanics of Operation: World War Two are based on the use of Order Cards
rather than the players’ choices. In real-life, the “perfect soldier” that always obeys all of his orders to the letter does
not exist... If you read battle accounts you will discover that even the best trained troops hesitate when facing the
enemy and sometimes they refuse to obey orders. For the same reason a good number of shots fired never had a
clear target, but mostly they were fired at a “presumed presence” - noise and nervousness had a big impact on the
number of shots fired… In an attempt to recreate this aspect of war we invented the Order Card system. You will
only be able to move, fire or assault if you have the right Order Card. The use of Order Cards also gives the game
some other advantages. In many games the turns alternate from one player to the other in the so-called “IGOUGO”
(I go, You go) system, when first Player A moves then Player B and so on. This method seriously limits the action
and prevents us from recreating that imponderable factor called chance. Will my squad get across that stretch of
road before the enemy machine gun interrupts their movement and cuts them down? In a classic game the result is
fairly predictable. With the Order Card system there is no way of knowing for sure until you try to cross that road.
Each order also has a value – called its Priority – that defines the speed with which that order is applied. The lower
the order number, the faster it is implemented. When assigning orders you must also take this variable into account
as the enemy has the possibility of INTERRUPTING or ANTICIPATING the action by playing an Order Card with a
lower priority. Obviously the deck does not only contain Priority 1 cards (the fastest) and so you will have to
manage your army with the cards that you have available and construct a winning strategy.
The last difference between this game and the more classic ones is the concept of Awareness. Too often it is
assumed that what the player can see is what the models can see. This is obviously unrealistic. For example you
know, as a player, that there are no enemy soldiers behind that wall but in real-life your men may not be aware of all
the enemy’s movements. In order to avoid the use of too many markers that would represent the units that have been
spotted, we have developed a system based on the type of unit and the last action that they performed. It is easy to
see a tank that is advancing and firing, but not as easy to see an infantry unit that is moving slowly through a house.
A simple table has solved the problem.
While playing your first few games you may be surprised by the fact that every turn you MUST play an order for
every unit. Sometimes this will force a hidden unit to fire, (thus giving away their position in terms of awareness),
even without a target. Maybe they are nervous, maybe a trigger-finger slipped… As you will have guessed, this may
be frustrating but it creates realistic situations. Try to put yourself in their shoes... are you certain that there are no
enemy troops in those woods, in that house, behind that wall? Are they your friends? There is no doubt that the rule
“shoot first, ask questions later” was fairly common. From game to game you will find out how to minimise these
situations and with time you will manage to build an army that satisfies your strategic requirements.
Remember that this “simple” game is a simulation of war, and so nothing is left to chance. Even with the worst luck
in the world the best player will always win.
Wprowadzenie , trochę o filozofii gry. Nic kontrowersyjnego. Kto zainteresowany wersją Polską tego tekstu: http://bitewniaki.polter.pl/Operation-W ... acja-c8950

Compatibility with Operation Overlord
These rules are the result of four years of comments and suggestions received from players all over the world; in
these pages we have collected the basic rules as well as those contained in Paratrooper Attack, Upgrade Vehicle and
Berlin 1945, which have all been thoroughly revised and corrected. Even seasoned players of the original game
should read through these rules at least once to discover all the new additions. Considering that the mechanisms are
very similar, the scenarios that have already been published are perfectly compatible with this edition but you should
use the values and characteristics indicated in this new version when using the new tables.


Tu też wszystko jasne. Ten fragment informuje nas o zgodności Mechaniki z poprzednią wersja systemu.
GAME COMPONENTS
Apart from this rulebook you will need some other game components to play Operation: World War Two. They are
described below.
Dice: The only dice used is a ten-sided dice where the ‘0’ is considered a ’10’. During play you will often be
required to roll a dice to see what happens. Mostly the result that you have to roll must be equal to, or greater than,
the number shown.
If the Training number is 3+ you have to roll at least 3 (or more) to avoid your unit panicking; a
roll of 1 or 2 will be a failure.
Sometimes you will apply some modifiers to the result and in this case you should add or subtract them to obtain the
final result.
This ten-sided dice will also be used to define the deviation of indirect fire that misses the target; the new point of
impact will be decided by the direction that the dice is pointing in and the number rolled.
Tape measure: All measurements in the game are made in centimetres. Movement, weapons range and burst areas
are all measured with a simple tape measure. Remember that you are allowed to measure before performing any
action and before making any declaration whatsoever. Checking whether you’re within close range, within the
awareness distance of the enemy, whether your unit is in cohesion and much more will always require a quick
measurement…
Fragment mówiący o tym ,że możemy mierzyć kiedy chcemy.
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xardas12r
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Order Card Deck: This game includes two identical decks of 40 cards each: one for the Axis player and one for the
Allies. Each player will give orders to his units who will act faster or slower depending on the priority of the Order
Card. These cards are divided into 5 types: FIRE, MOVEMENT, ASSAULT, AMBUSH and SUPPRESSION FIRE.
Further on in the rules you will find a detailed explanation of each type of order.
Na czarno zaznaczyłem i podkreśliłem tekst mówiący o sposobie używania kart i inicjatywie. Jest to fragment zasad wzbudzający najwięcej kontrowersji.

Znaczenie podkreślonego zdania: "Obaj gracze dają rozkazy dla swoich jednostek , które działają szybciej lub wolniej zależnie od priorytetu karty"
Tables: We have grouped all the tables together in a separate booklet to ease their consultation.
Models: Plastic or metal miniatures of men and vehicles allow you to represent the army that you will move around
the table and lead into action. Every man must be based on a 2cm diameter disc. The bases of the models cannot
overlap for any reason whatsoever during the game. No bases are required for the vehicles. You should ensure that
each model is armed as shown in the Army Lists and is identified by a letter and number (e.g. A1). This will help
you identify the units and ensure that they don’t get mixed up when playing with large armies (Unit A, Unit B,
Model 1, Model 2, etc. )
Markers: During play you will use various markers to show the state of some units in special situations. These
markers will be explained in full in the various paragraphs that follow.
Templates: The game uses four types of circular templates with different diameters; 3, 5, 8 and 10cm.
Flamethrowers require the use of a triangular template. Generally if the base of an infantry model or part of a
vehicle is within the borders of the template then that model has been hit.


Zaznaczony fragment mówi o tym ,że model jest trafiony w momencie kiedy podstawka piechociarza lub fragment modelu znajdzie się w promieniu wybuchu.
Vehicle template: To help you identify the front, rear and sides of a vehicle we have also included a vehicle
template that also shows 22° and 45° firing angles. Use this when you have any doubts.
Wargames table: This is a wargame so you will play your games on a specially made table that simulates a
battlefield. The number of scenery elements that you should use will depend on the type of scenario that you want to
recreate. For a countryside setting just a few houses, some walls and a few woods will suffice, while you will need
lots of buildings for urban combat. Generally the battlefield should be balanced and should not favour either of the
two players. A good system is to allow one player to set up the table and then allow the other player to choose the
side he will deploy his troops on. You can play on a table measuring 120cm x 120cm but we suggest bigger tables
(at least 160cm x 120cm) for games using 4,000 point armies.
There are various scenarios based on historical events
to help you out and which can be downloaded from our web-site at www.alzozero.it .
Interesujący fragment o rozmiarach stołów. Dla gier w okolicach 4k jest polecany stół 1.6mx1,2m.Żadne 3mx2m jak pewna osoba puszcza w eter (A tu pozdrawiam Aleksa ;))
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xardas12r
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DEFINITION OF UNITS AND MODELS
When reading these rules and during the description of the various phases of the game you will often find the terms
infantry and vehicle together with the terms model and unit.
For game purposes infantry, artillery and stationary motorbikes are considered to be infantry.
For game purposes a tank, an armoured car, a half-track, a truck, a car and a moving motorbike are
considered to be vehicles.
Tu ciekawostka - Model Motocyklu Jadący to pojazd , jak się nie poruszał - piechota. Wczoraj się trochę w tym zamotałem.
Model: This term identifies a single man, a tank, a vehicle, a gun.
Unit: This term identifies the basic formation that can perform an order. Specifically it can consist of a single
model, such as a tank, or more than one model in the case of infantry units. When an order is given the entire unit
performs that same order even if it comprises more than one model.
Going into detail, the models can be subdivided into the following categories:
Infantry: Men in general, unloaded vehicle crew, gun crew, mortar crew, etc.
Artillery: Guns in general from anti-tank to anti-aircraft guns, from howitzers to rocket-launchers (for
awareness purposes artillery counts as infantry).
Motorbike: Vehicles with 2 or 3 wheels, including special vehicles such as the German Kettenkrad and the
Sidecar.
Car: Four-wheeled vehicles that can carry up to 4 men.
Truck: Vehicles that can carry infantry units, they can have 4, 6 or 8 wheels and sometimes even have
tracks.
Half-track: Vehicles with two front-wheels and rear tracks. These vehicles are classified as armoured
vehicles. Some can transport infantry units.
Armoured Car: Vehicles with 4, 6 or 8 wheels. These vehicles are classified as armoured vehicles.
Tanks: Tracked vehicles. These vehicles are armoured vehicles and are sub-divided into light tanks,
medium tanks and heavy tanks.
Assault guns, motorised artillery, self-propelled guns and other classifications have been included in the categories
above to simplify the tables, but their specific nature has been maintained with the use of the characteristics.


Fragment o klasyfikacji pojazdów w grze.
Characteristics
Both models and units may have particular specifications that influence various aspects of the game (movement,
fire, awareness, etc.) In the unit description you will see the characteristics section if your unit has any special
abilities or penalties. Check the Characteristics Table to find out what they mean.
Training
The troop’s training, their value, their tenacity and their bravery are all summed up in one number: Training. All
tests (Panic, Driving, Assault, etc.) are made using this number. Given that to pass a test you need to get equal to or
better than this number, this implies that the lower it is, the better the Training.
A unit of American paratroopers, with Training 3, is better trained than a unit of American
Riflemen with Training 4.
Fragment o robieniu testów morale.
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xardas12r
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Zaczynają się rzeczy miej oczywiste ( przynajmniej dla mnie)
THE GAME TURN
In order to rationalise the various actions that occur during the battle it is sub-divided into a series of turns which
are, in turn, sub-divided into a series of phases. Normally a battle will last 6 turns during which the units follow the
orders given to them. In every full game turn all units that are not panicking MUST be assigned an order.
Każda jednostka musi otrzymać rozkaz.

Wieczorem wrzucę kolejne kilka stron.
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Przemos19
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Post autor: Przemos19 »

Jak narazie są to rzeczy bardzo oczywiste ;)
Zwłaszcza to, że każda jednostka musi otrzymać rozkaz. To właśnie wynik filozofii systemu kart.
http://www.przemos85.blogspot.com/ - blog poświęcony OWW2 i wargamingowi

http://www.battlegroup.net.pl - strona poświęcona Operation World War 2 i wargamingowi
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xardas12r
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Post autor: xardas12r »

Wiem , ale tu bardzo często protestują długoletni gracze warhammera ;)
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Thomas
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Tak czytam i nie bardzo kumam o co ci w ogóle chodzi z tym tekstem? Masz jakis problem albo kwestię sporną to wrzuć od razu ustęp tekstu który cię interesuje, a nie zaczynasz od początku dyktować podręcznik.
xardas12r pisze:mam już dość ciągłych wymian zdań z graczami z innych miast (Pozdrawiam Ralwgora) na temat zasad.
wypisz tą wymianę zdań, przedyskutuje się problem i będzie wiadomo co i jak. powstanie ostateczna wersja zasad i już.

Strzała
T
.:: !! POSZUKIWANI WARGAMERZY Z ŁODZI I OKOLIC. ZGŁOSZENIA I INFO NA PW !! ::.
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xardas12r
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Problemu nie stanowi jedna , czy dwie zasady tylko cała masa. na razie grałem z ludźmi z warszawy i gdańska i różnice to jakieś 30% drobnych zasad .
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xardas12r
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BASIC TURN SEQUENCE
1) Order Card Re-fill
2) Panic Recovery
3) Initiative
4) Order Sequence
A) Order assignment and declaration of intents of the player that won the initiative
B) Reactions
C) Counter-reactions
D) Execution of Orders according to their Priority
The other player then repeats the sequence
… and so on until all the units have received and executed an order. When both players’ units have
performed an action then the turn is over and a new one can begin.
5) Turn ends
I tu mam problem - przebieg tury moim zdaniem powinien być taki :

1)Uzupełnienie kart
2)Zbieranie oddziałów
3)Inicjatywa
I moim zdaniem faza wydawania rozkazów wygląda tak :
A)Gracz z inicjatywą deklaruje rozkaz
B)Gracz bez inicjatyw kontruje go kartą o lepszym priorytecie
C)Ten gracz z inicjatywą teraz może go skontrować ... i tak aż padnie priorytet 1 albo jedna z stron nie skontruje
Wtedy:
A)Gracz bez inicjatywy deklaruje rozkaz
B)Gracz z inicjatywą kontruje go kartą o lepszym priorytecie
C)Ten gracz bez inicjatywy teraz może go skontrować ... i tak aż padnie priorytet 1 albo jedna z stron nie skontruje
I teraz znowu może zagrać rozkaz gracz z inicjatywą
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xardas12r
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Panic Recovery phase
From the second turn onwards you may have to recover panicked units. In this phase all panicked units that are in
the open must move as fast as possible towards the closest cover without moving closer to the enemy. When they
reach cover they throw themselves to the ground and are Pinned!
Panicked units that are already Pinned! and in cover can try to recover by taking a Morale Test. If they pass the test
then they are no longer in panic; stand all the models up. They may not do anything else this turn, so place a Unit
has Moved marker next to the unit (whatever the distance they have covered) making sure it’s the right colour (white
for even turns, black for odd turns). If they were already in cover the turn before, place a Unit was Stationary marker
next to them (white for even turns, black for odd turns). These markers help when defining awareness of the unit
(see the rules below).
If the unit is reduced to only one man after losses, even if he is not Panicked, he must perform a Morale Test every
turn. If the model passes the test then he can carry on fighting, but if he fails the test remove the model.
W tej fazie:
Wszystkie spanikowane jednostki poruszają się do najbliższej osłony , gdzie przypadają na ziemie spinowane.

Za jednostki znajdujące się już w osłonie rzucamy Moral Testy

Jednostki które się zebrały nie są już aktywne w tej turze

W tej fazie testujemy też pojedyncze modele.
Remember that once you have assigned an Order card and declared the intentions of a unit you cannot change your
mind for any reason whatsoever.
Wynikało by z tego ,że jeżeli cel ucieknie strzelającemu, ten nie może zmienić sobie celu.
Movement: Units that have received this order will move, slow or fast, to the destination that was declared and that
must be within the maximum distance allowed for that unit. For awareness purposes, infantry units that move slowly
are considered stationary. Vehicles with this order are always considered in movement for awareness purposes, even
if they don’t actually move.
The engine noise has given their position away.
Czyli z rozkazu nie można przeczekać pojazdem w ukryciu.Tylko jak damy zasadzkę.
Assault: Units that have received this order will move, slow or fast, up to the destination that was declared and that
must be within the maximum distance allowed for that unit during an assault. If you have declared that you will fire
at an enemy unit you can fire before or after moving as long as when you fire the target unit is in line of sight and
you are aware of them. Apply a penalty of -1 to hit. If the target has moved thanks to a lower priority, you can
ignore your original destination and try to follow them moving towards the enemy unit up to the maximum distance
allowed during an assault.

For awareness purposes you should consider this order as a combination of a Movement Order and a Fire
Order. If you fire after moving then the unit is considered moving until it fires. Remember that the unit will fire
even without a valid target; you can postpone fire but you cannot avoid firing. Imagine that a man has fired a shot
accidentally, or that your men, who haven’t got your view of the battlefield, have fired at a point on the battlefield
where they think the enemy is to be found.
If the order is played to react or counter-react YOU MAY NOT delay your fire to obtain better conditions by
interrupting enemy movement.


Czyli można zmienić deklarowany punkt ruchu śledząc przeciwnika.
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xardas12r
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Low walls and hedges: Models at ground level can extend their line of sight up to a maximum of 10cm
beyond low walls and hedges. Models ignore low walls and hedges that they are next to.
• High walls and hedges: Models at ground level may not extend their line of sight beyond high walls and
hedges (over 2.5cm). Infantry models next to high walls can throw grenades over them if they are aware of
enemy models within 5cm of the wall. With high hedges, infantry models next to the hedge can fire and
throw grenades beyond the hedge if they are aware of enemy models within 5cm of the hedge.
• Woods: These elements limit the line of sight within their perimeter and are defined as areas of cover. The
line of sight extends up to a maximum of 5cm into this element. Models beyond this distance cannot be
considered valid targets as they are out of the line of sight. Single trees or portions of woods that are
smaller than 5cm wide are considered small woods; the line of sight does not go further than the normal
5cm.
• Buildings and ruins: These elements limit the line of sight within their perimeter and are defined as areas
of cover. The line of sight extends up to a maximum of 5cm from a window, gap or door on the side of the
building that you are firing at. Models beyond this distance cannot be considered valid targets as they are
out of the line of sight.
• Firing levels: Models in the upper floors of a house or on a hill can ignore low walls and hedges but not
woods, buildings and ruins that are in the line of sight. In houses measure the vertical distance to move
from one floor to another. For high hedges and walls use the real line of sight and… common sense. If the
players disagree, roll a dice to decide.
To budziło sporo wątpliwości.

Tak więc :
a)Przez przeszkody do 2,5 cm - linia widzenia do 10cm za
b)Przez przeszkody od 2,5 cm - linia widzenia do 5cm za
c)Las- linia widzenia 5cm wgłąb
d)Budynki i Ruiny- linia widzenia 5cm wgłąb przez otwory w ścianach

Figurek poza LOS nie można ostrzelać , nawet jeżeli są elementem ostrzeliwanej drużyny.
Cover and protection
If a direct fire shot hits a vehicle and if that vehicle is more that 50% hidden behind a wall, the scenery element may
absorb the impact of the shot. Roll 1d10 on the Wall Protection Table.
Wall Protection Table
1-2: NE. The scenery element absorbs the shot.
3-10: Continue by rolling 1d10 on the Damage Table
In the case of a hit with direct fire and if the vehicle is more than 50% behind or within an area of cover (woods,
buildings, ruins), the element of scenery may absorb the impact. Roll 1d10 on the Areas of Cover Protection Table.
Areas of Cover Protection Table
1-4 NE. The scenery element absorbs the shot.
5-10 Continue by rolling 1d10 on the Damage Table.
After checking the Damage Table, if the part of the vehicle that has been hit is completely behind the element of
scenery considered to be an area of cover then treat the result as NE. If it is behind both a wall AND an area of
cover then roll on the Areas of Cover Protection Table.
A tu się okazuje ,że częściowo miałem racje. Okop chroni 1-4 , a murki 1-2
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xardas12r
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Vehicles as cover
Vehicles offer cover to both loaded models and to the models behind them; Consider non-armoured vehicles as light
cover, armoured vehicles as medium cover and tanks as heavy cover.
Motory dają Light Covera ??
If a motorbike driver is killed or Pinned! while moving at more than slow speed, he crashes. Remove the model and
any passengers.
Tego też nie stosowałem. Musze zacząć.

To wszystko z czym kojarzę jakieś tarcia.
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Przemos19
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Post autor: Przemos19 »

XARDAS = HERETYK! NA STOS!!!
I tu mam problem - przebieg tury moim zdaniem powinien być taki :

1)Uzupełnienie kart
2)Zbieranie oddziałów
3)Inicjatywa
I moim zdaniem faza wydawania rozkazów wygląda tak :
A)Gracz z inicjatywą deklaruje rozkaz
B)Gracz bez inicjatyw kontruje go kartą o lepszym priorytecie
C)Ten gracz z inicjatywą teraz może go skontrować ... i tak aż padnie priorytet 1 albo jedna z stron nie skontruje
Wtedy:
A)Gracz bez inicjatywy deklaruje rozkaz
B)Gracz z inicjatywą kontruje go kartą o lepszym priorytecie
C)Ten gracz bez inicjatywy teraz może go skontrować ... i tak aż padnie priorytet 1 albo jedna z stron nie skontruje
I teraz znowu może zagrać rozkaz gracz z inicjatywą

NIE NIE NIE! Do punktu C wszystko jest ok, ale po tym od razu wykonuje sie rozkazy z danej wymiany. Dopiero po tym gracz bez inicjatywy deklaruje rozkaz itp. Po A,B,C - wykonanie rozkazow i tak dalej aż każda jednostka wykona jeden rozkaz w danej turze (bo A-C to podtury)

Z resztą wydaje mi się że masz pogląd zgodny z poglądem większości.
http://www.przemos85.blogspot.com/ - blog poświęcony OWW2 i wargamingowi

http://www.battlegroup.net.pl - strona poświęcona Operation World War 2 i wargamingowi
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Wookush
Lieutenant
Posty: 508
Rejestracja: wtorek, 3 lipca 2007, 12:28
Lokalizacja: Warszawa

Post autor: Wookush »

xardas12r pisze:
BASIC TURN SEQUENCE
1) Order Card Re-fill
2) Panic Recovery
3) Initiative
4) Order Sequence
A) Order assignment and declaration of intents of the player that won the initiative
B) Reactions
C) Counter-reactions
D) Execution of Orders according to their Priority
The other player then repeats the sequence
… and so on until all the units have received and executed an order. When both players’ units have
performed an action then the turn is over and a new one can begin.
5) Turn ends
I tu mam problem - przebieg tury moim zdaniem powinien być taki :

1)Uzupełnienie kart
2)Zbieranie oddziałów
3)Inicjatywa
I moim zdaniem faza wydawania rozkazów wygląda tak :
A)Gracz z inicjatywą deklaruje rozkaz
B)Gracz bez inicjatyw kontruje go kartą o lepszym priorytecie
C)Ten gracz z inicjatywą teraz może go skontrować ... i tak aż padnie priorytet 1 albo jedna z stron nie skontruje
Wtedy:
A)Gracz bez inicjatywy deklaruje rozkaz
B)Gracz z inicjatywą kontruje go kartą o lepszym priorytecie
C)Ten gracz bez inicjatywy teraz może go skontrować ... i tak aż padnie priorytet 1 albo jedna z stron nie skontruje
I teraz znowu może zagrać rozkaz gracz z inicjatywą
Hym... coś mi tu się nie zgadza, albo nie zaczaiłem twojego tłumaczenia.
Na początku autor każe wszystko czynić zgodnie ze zdrowym rozsądkiem. Ja to rozumiem tak:
1)Uzupełnienie kart
2)Zbieranie oddziałów
3)Inicjatywa
4)Rozkazy
a) gracz z inicjatywą daje rozkaz
b) gracz bez inicjatywy kontruje
c) riposta tego z inicjatywą itd. aż pada karta priorytet 1, albo kończą się oddziały bez rozkazów
d) gracz z inicjatywą aktywuje rozkaz z priorytetem 1 (skoro ma w tej turze inicjatywę to on wszystko zaczyna), gdy obaj gracze mają aktywować jednostki z rozkazami o takim samym priorytecie, to pierwszy aktywuje je gracz z inicjatywą.
e) ewentualne dokończenie wydawania rozkazów (zaczyna gracz z inicjatywą)
d) ewentualne aktywowanie jednostek pozostałych
5)Koniec tury.
Gram w: "Kompfgruppe Normandy"
Gram w: "Ambush Alley: Force On Force"
I JESTEM Z TEGO DUMNY !!! :D
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xardas12r
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Post autor: xardas12r »

No to tu trafiłem , po prostu zapomniałem napisać o wykonaniu rozkazów. QB za to ma troszkę różny pogląd na to - i właściwie ,mimo ,że sposób niepodręcznikowy świetnie się sprawdza w dużych bitwach.
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